CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > Software User Forums > ANSYS > FLUENT > Fluent Multiphase

unsteady dpm integration time step

Register Blogs Community New Posts Updated Threads Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   June 2, 2020, 14:43
Default unsteady dpm integration time step
  #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 5
Raymond_1981 is on a distinguished road
Hello!

I would like to receive some help with understanding which integration time step is used in the unsteady dpm model in Fluent.



I have the following case. I’m modeling Stairmands High-Efficiency cyclone. I start with a steady state k-epsilon RNG simulation after which I change the turbulence model to RSM. One converged I switch to a transient simulation and let the solution converge for a period of time. I use a fluid time step of 1e-05s and a CFL of approximately 0.5.

The next phase is to inject particles in the transient simulation. These particles are tracked unsteady and I use one-way coupling. To account for turbulent dispersion, I use the random walk model with a random Eddy lifetime. The number of steps are set to 1000 and the step length is set to 5. The accuracy settings are default and I use the trapezoidal rule for integration. The simulation runs fine and the results are as expected.

Now I have some trouble understanding the time step used in the integration of the dpm equations. I wasn't able to find an answer in the theory guide unfortunately. Is the time step automatically set to the random Eddy lifetime? And is this integration (with a random Eddy lifetime) repeated for a number of steps until the continuous phase time step of 1e-05s is reached, after which it solves for the continuous phase again and repeats the process? Or is the time step based on the step length? But how is then the random Eddy lifetime incorporated?

Who can help me understanding the procedure used in Fluent? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Best regards, Raymond

Last edited by Raymond_1981; June 2, 2020 at 14:45. Reason: textual changes
Raymond_1981 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   June 3, 2020, 06:30
Default Turbulent Dispersion and Time-Step
  #2
Senior Member
 
vinerm's Avatar
 
Vinerm
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Nederland
Posts: 2,946
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 35
vinerm will become famous soon enough
Time-step for integration is always based on the either Step Length Factor or Length Scale, depending upon what is specified by the user.

Turbulent dispersion is an optional model. Even if it is disabled, particles are to be tracked. DRW uses multiple tracks based on turbulent kinetic energy and a Gaussian distribution around it.
__________________
Regards,
Vinerm

PM to be used if and only if you do not want something to be shared publicly. PM is considered to be of the least priority.
vinerm is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   June 3, 2020, 07:51
Default Turbulent Dispersion and Time-Step
  #3
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 5
Raymond_1981 is on a distinguished road
Hi Vinerm,


Thank you for your reply! I do have some follow up questions:
  1. In the user manual the integration time step is defined as the (transit time)/(step length factor). Is this also the case with an unsteady simulation or is then the fluid time step used in stead of the estimated transit time? How is the fluid time step considered in this integration, since a particle can only move a certain distance in the given fluid time step?
  2. The theory guide states that the instantaneous velocity field is used in the particle force balance is stead of the mean fluid phase velocity in case of stochastic tracking. If the integration time differs from the eddy lifetime (or crossover time), how is the updated instantaneous velocity field (after reaching the eddy lifetime or crossover time) used in the particle force balance?
Thanks!
Raymond_1981 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   June 3, 2020, 09:22
Default Integration Time and Dispersion
  #4
Senior Member
 
vinerm's Avatar
 
Vinerm
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Nederland
Posts: 2,946
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 35
vinerm will become famous soon enough
Whether particles are tracked in a steady (which is actually a misnomer) or unsteady manner, time-step is always based on same approach. The time given in Unsteady Tracking is used for injection of particles.

Integration time is used for integration of the Lagrangian equation while the eddy cross-over or its lifetime marks the update of random velocity field used in equation.
__________________
Regards,
Vinerm

PM to be used if and only if you do not want something to be shared publicly. PM is considered to be of the least priority.
vinerm is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   June 4, 2020, 13:34
Default Integration Time and Dispersion
  #5
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 5
Raymond_1981 is on a distinguished road
Hi Vinerm,


Thank you for your answer! This makes sense.



The only thing I haven't got clear yet is how the new position of the particles are determined in relation to the fluid time step. You can see that with every fluid time step the particles advance in the domain. How is this done?



Kind regards,


Raymond
Raymond_1981 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   June 4, 2020, 13:54
Default Fluid Time Step
  #6
Senior Member
 
vinerm's Avatar
 
Vinerm
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Nederland
Posts: 2,946
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 35
vinerm will become famous soon enough
The primary effect of fluid time-step is via update of flow field; the flow-field most likely is changing every instant in a transient simulation. The other effect is if the particles are injected at the fluid time-step, however, this is user specified. Otherwise, fluid time-step and particle tracking are independent. You can simulate fluid flow for 10 s, however, it can have some particles that move out of the domain in less than a second and some particles that will spend more than an hour in there.
__________________
Regards,
Vinerm

PM to be used if and only if you do not want something to be shared publicly. PM is considered to be of the least priority.
vinerm is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   June 4, 2020, 15:05
Default
  #7
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 5
Raymond_1981 is on a distinguished road
Hi Vinerm,


Everything makes sense now. Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated!



Kind regards, Raymond
Raymond_1981 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Tags
dpm, eddy lifetime, fluent, timestep size


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Time Step Continuity Errors simpleFoam Dorian1504 OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD 1 October 9, 2022 09:23
pressure in incompressible solvers e.g. simpleFoam chrizzl OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD 13 March 28, 2017 05:49
Star cd es-ice solver error ernarasimman STAR-CD 2 September 12, 2014 00:01
AMI interDyMFoam for mixer nu problem danny123 OpenFOAM Programming & Development 8 September 6, 2013 02:34
mixerVesselAMI2D's mass is not balancing sharonyue OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD 6 June 10, 2013 09:34


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:35.