
[Sponsors] 
Steady State Wave maker simulation with VOF Model 

LinkBack  Thread Tools  Search this Thread  Display Modes 
August 2, 2020, 09:12 
Steady State Wave maker simulation with VOF Model

#1 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
I want to simulate the case in attachment picture in steady state...I solve the equations for steady state and I want to get desire result in CFX.but CFX didn't get Converge...I don't know why?...
verif_paper.jpg AAAAA.jpg
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

August 2, 2020, 17:03 

#2 
Senior Member
Alexander Karachun
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mykolaiv, Ukraine
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 10 
Because this problem is transient, not steady state. You can calculate interaction of waves and beach only in transients, there are no possibilities to reduce the problem to steady state.


August 2, 2020, 18:49 

#3 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
Right is yours...
But in Analytical solution we obtaine a solution that affected by the reflections... I have two methods for satisfying this condition : 1Control the simulation time to get the results affected by the reflections(for example do simulation for 40,50,...,100 and even more and compare results) 2Steady state simulation(if possible) Thank you for your attention...! I work on Wave maker theory and I do my thesis... I'm Applied Design Student... and I didn't work CFD before... Sorry if I asked a silly Question.. Thank you
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

August 2, 2020, 19:01 

#4  
Senior Member
Alexander Karachun
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mykolaiv, Ukraine
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 10 
I do not understand your answer, maybe you confuse time periodic flow with steady state solution. You can not solve this problem with steady state, only with transient simulation.
Quote:
This did not matter. If flow parameters don't change during time then flow may be assumed as steady state. If flow quantities (like velocity, pressure, volume fraction of water and air) vary during time then flow is transient. Does flow quantities change during time in your problem? Yes, water "particles" travel along circular or elliptical trajectories. Your case is transient. This is not related to ane theory you use to make analytical calculation. This is how CFD can perform calculation. Some flow problems can be simplified to steady state, your problem can not be simplified. 

August 2, 2020, 19:17 
I said if possible

#5 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
I agree with you it's not possible... I should control the simulation time and compare results...I asked a silly question... My solution is function of time... then there is no steady state solution...
Thank you for time you spent for my silly question
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

August 2, 2020, 19:22 

#6 
Senior Member
Alexander Karachun
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mykolaiv, Ukraine
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 10 
Yep, you got it.
Run transient solution, save enough transient results at selected time intervals and somehow post process results to obtain dependency of flow parameters vs. time. BTW All flow problems ate transient, without exceptions. But sometimes transient fluctuations are too small and we can neglect them without significant loss of accuracy. Sometimes not. 

August 2, 2020, 19:29 

#7 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
Thank you for everything
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

August 2, 2020, 19:59 

#8  
Super Moderator
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 17,323
Rep Power: 138 
Quote:
The Navier Stokes equations has flows which are completely steady state. There are no fluctuations of any size, even tiny ones. But the Navier Stokes equations are a mathematical model of the actual physics of Molecular Dynamics which has molecules constantly whizzing around, and there is no steady state in Molecular Dynamics. But CFX is a Navier Stokes solver, not a Molecular Dynamics solver, so CFX can have precisely steady state solutions.
__________________
Note: I do not answer CFD questions by PM. CFD questions should be posted on the forum. 

August 2, 2020, 20:32 

#9 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
Thank you...
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

September 10, 2020, 14:53 
Simulate Standing waves in a wave maker flume with Ansys CFX

#10 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
hi ghorrocks
I want to simulate standing waves in a flume of pistontype wave maker....My professor said if you increase simulation time,Error due residuals affect on results. I simulate for 100 seconds with 0.01 time step with RMS 0.0001 with 50 max loop... But the flow doesn't match with Analytical Solution.... Help me with this problem...Thank you... Flume.jpg CFX1.jpg
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

September 10, 2020, 17:37 

#11 
Senior Member
Alexander Karachun
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mykolaiv, Ukraine
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 10 
1. You should make grid independence study, reduce mesh size to ensure that mesh size doesn't affect the solution.
2. Run calculation with smaller residuals, like 1e5 to ensure that residuals don't affect the result. 3. I recommend to use adaptive timestep size. Set min coef loops to 2 and max coef. loops to 10. Set the initial timestep to some small value like 1e6 or 1e5. Set min/max timesteps so the solver never reaches them, like 1e10 and 1000. Set min/max target coef loops to 3 and 5. I also have a question, I've read that if I solve flow using one iteration during timestep I can lose some accuracy  some variables are calculated only from the second timestep. Am I right? 

September 10, 2020, 19:45 

#12  
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
Quote:
I try as you said... And about your question if I understand what you ask...in first step some variables have initial values...Initialized variable doesn't need to Calculated......Just simple calculus for other variable base on initialization.....I hope answer your question right....
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

September 10, 2020, 21:19 
Meshing

#13 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
I mesh the domain....is this good meshing?....How I can make a good mesh?
I use smaller mesh size near water surface....I use 0.001 mm for element size...othes element size is 0.005....Is it good? I use two method for meshing...I use sweep method for the triangle part...I use all tri meshing for sweep method...help me to make a suitable mesh...thanks Mesh1.jpg Mesh2.jpg Mesh3.jpg Mesh4.jpg
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

September 10, 2020, 22:30 

#14 
Super Moderator
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 17,323
Rep Power: 138 
There is no general answer to those questions. The requirement is different for every application. So do a sensitivity analysis on your case and see what you need.
This means: For mesh size, do a simulation with double the element edge length and half the element edge length and see if the results change.
__________________
Note: I do not answer CFD questions by PM. CFD questions should be posted on the forum. 

October 27, 2020, 08:28 
Wave Maker

#15 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
Hi again...
I have a problem yet.... The problem is about simulation time.... It takes a long time to reach a good result to satisfy our analytical solution... Do you have idea to reduce the simulation time to get the desire result? Please note that We solve the equation for standing waves...it means we assume a time periodic solution without progressive waves... Some results are in this file: Solution.pdf
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

October 27, 2020, 09:56 

#16 
Senior Member
Alexander Karachun
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mykolaiv, Ukraine
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 10 
 make mesh coarser;
 turn off turbulence model (in free surface problems you can sometimes neglect turbulence). On each step you should check that the results are still accurate enough. 

October 27, 2020, 11:52 

#17  
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
Quote:
if I do as you said, solution affected due coarse mesh... I ask my Professor to reduce simulation time enter our soulution as initial solution and let CFX Analayse it for 20 seconds and see how its changed and compare the results...But my professor reject my solution....I think my solution is the best solution...what is your idea?
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

October 27, 2020, 12:42 

#18 
Senior Member
Alexander Karachun
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mykolaiv, Ukraine
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 10 

October 27, 2020, 15:06 

#19 
Member
Saeed Pashazanousi
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Iran
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 5 
Thank you karachun...but I expected more help...
I'm involving with this case more than 2 months... I tried every possible method to validate the solution... I asked this Question in researchgate too...but I didn't get the desire answer... I don't know...may there is no way and the only way is coding... Thanks for your attention
__________________
Best regards Saeed Pashazanousi Urmia University Email: st_s.pashazanousi@urmia.ac.ir 

October 27, 2020, 16:36 

#20 
Senior Member
Alexander Karachun
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mykolaiv, Ukraine
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 10 
It was my first thought but I do not want to write rude comments.
There is no magic if you already have one layer of elements and you do not want to coarse mesh then I don't see other ways to speed up this simulation. I don't think that you can speed up CFX using some programming. 

Tags 
ansys 13 work bench, cfd, cfx, cfx 16, fluid 
Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
interFoam wave propagation and explosion of Courant number and residuals  ChiaraViola  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  1  June 26, 2019 06:36 
Droplet is just getting disaaper after Steady state VOF model  raushan kumar  Fluent Multiphase  0  May 20, 2019 10:32 
Weird results in MRF simulation of stirred tank with a steady state kw SST model  aminem  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  2  January 3, 2015 12:21 
2d axisymmetric simulation of supersonic jet on liquid surface using VOF model  DKanungo  Fluent Multiphase  0  June 20, 2014 03:15 
Steady state simulation with transient partilcle tracking  mali28  FLUENT  2  February 7, 2013 15:25 