Pressure Drop

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September 27, 2022, 04:41
Pressure Drop
#1
New Member

Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Germany
Posts: 24
Rep Power: 6
Hey guys,

I'm trying to calculate pressure drop in a pipe when air is flowing through. The pipe has four straight parts and three pipe elbows (sketch in picture). I checked my simulation results and compared them with calculations from some Online Calculators from the internet. There are huge differences especially in the pipe elbows (picture). Do you have any ideas where these differences come from?

Assumptions:
INLET
BOUNDARY CONDITIONS:
FLOW DIRECTION:
Option = Normal to Boundary Condition
END
FLOW REGIME:
Option = Subsonic
END
HEAT TRANSFER:
Option = Static Temperature
Static Temperature = 375 [C]
END
MASS AND MOMENTUM:
Mass Flow Rate = 435 [kg s^-1]
Mass Flow Rate Area = As Specified
Option = Mass Flow Rate
END
OUTLET
BOUNDARY CONDITIONS:
FLOW DIRECTION:
Option = Normal to Boundary Condition
END
FLOW REGIME:
Option = Subsonic
END
HEAT TRANSFER:
Opening Temperature = 375 [C]
Option = Opening Temperature
END
MASS AND MOMENTUM:
Option = Opening Pressure and Direction
Relative Pressure = 0 [Pa]
END
DOMAIN MODELS:
BUOYANCY MODEL:
Option = Non Buoyant
END
DOMAIN MOTION:
Option = Stationary
END
MESH DEFORMATION:
Option = None
END
REFERENCE PRESSURE:
Reference Pressure = 1.9 [bar]
END
END
FLUID DEFINITION: Fluid 1
Material = Air Ideal Gas
Option = Material Library
MORPHOLOGY:
Option = Continuous Fluid
END
END
FLUID MODELS:
COMBUSTION MODEL:
Option = None
END
HEAT TRANSFER MODEL:
Option = Thermal Energy
END
Option = None
END
TURBULENCE MODEL:
Option = k epsilon
END
TURBULENT WALL FUNCTIONS:
Option = Scalable
END

Thanks

Irie
Attached Images
 PressureDrop.jpg (66.0 KB, 28 views)

 September 27, 2022, 05:44 #2 Senior Member   Gert-Jan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 1,827 Rep Power: 27 What is the diameter of the pipe?

 September 27, 2022, 06:59 #3 New Member   Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 24 Rep Power: 6 2250 mm and the elbow bend radius 3360 mm

 September 27, 2022, 07:21 #4 Senior Member   Gert-Jan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 1,827 Rep Power: 27 According to your settings, you have a density of 1 kg/m3. This means that your inlet velocity exceeds 100m/s. Is that what you expect? If so, then you are studying an uncommon problem. Is it North Stream I or II? Nevertheless, then I would use Total Energy since you are reaching Mach=0.3. karachun likes this.

 September 27, 2022, 07:37 #5 New Member   Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 24 Rep Power: 6 "Is it North Stream I or II?" No but I will try Total Energy. Velo is correct. Why do you call it uncommon problem?

 September 27, 2022, 07:50 #6 Senior Member   Gert-Jan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 1,827 Rep Power: 27 - Transporting 420 kg/s of air at 1.9 bar and 375°C, is not somehting I encounter very often. Therefore I was checking. - I don't think the online tools cover these operating conditions. - I guess you now use uniform inlet conditions? I wonder if that is correct with 100 m/s. Don't think so. Better add additional geometrical info upstream the inlet. - Also I wonder how the velocity looks like.

September 27, 2022, 08:05
#7
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Germany
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"- I guess you now use uniform inlet conditions? I wonder if that is correct with 100 m/s. Don't think so. Better add additional geometrical info upstream the inlet." - Could you explain a little bit more? What do you mean by "add additional geometrical info upstream the inlet"

"- Also I wonder how the velocity looks like." - picture
Attached Images
 Velo.jpg (39.0 KB, 15 views)

 September 27, 2022, 09:28 #8 Senior Member   Gert-Jan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 1,827 Rep Power: 27 - Let me reformulate..... What is present upstream the inlet? More straight duct? Or a piece of equipment where the hot air is generated. A furnace, a DeNOx installation..... - Did you perform a mesh sensitivity check? - Remember, total pressure is a better indicator for pressure drop than static pressure.

 September 27, 2022, 09:50 #9 New Member   Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 24 Rep Power: 6 "- Let me reformulate..... What is present upstream the inlet? More straight duct? Or a piece of equipment where the hot air is generated. A furnace, a DeNOx installation....." - unfortunately no infos about that... "- Did you perform a mesh sensitivity check?" - I did "- Remember, total pressure is a better indicator for pressure drop than static pressure." - I used (areaAve(Total Pressure)@Inlet - areaAve(Total Pressure)@Outlet) I thought that the problem should be scalable until the influence of the wall is getting bigger. Thats why I ask u of uncommon problem..

 September 28, 2022, 15:25 #10 Senior Member   Erik Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Earth (Land portion) Posts: 1,167 Rep Power: 23 In my experience hand calcs for elbows always show much higher pressure drops than a CFD result. My theory is that in CFD you have a perfect smooth bent elbow with constant cross section. The hand formulas are likely empirical and the result of some threaded elbows with expansions and contractions, or ovaling of the tube form the bend, or with internal weld protrusion at the elbows. The difference is real world elbows vs a perfect curved tube.

 September 29, 2022, 04:18 #11 New Member   Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 24 Rep Power: 6 Thanks for your replies. @evcelia: That makes total sense. I didn't expect such a huge difference but maybe that is the answer.