# Axial compressor calculation steps?

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 November 14, 2011, 07:39 Axial compressor calculation steps? #1 Member   Oleg Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ukraine, Kharkov Posts: 57 Rep Power: 14 Dear All. I'm a newbie in CFX calculations and i need your advices concerning calculation of axial compressor stage in CFX. I calculated axial turbine before and everything was OK. But in compressor (Stage 37), when i set the same boundary conditions (P_total_in, T_total_in and P_static_out) the flow goes in wrong direction. Solver puts wall on 100% of inlet. The only way i managed to calculate it right is by setting of "supersonic" in outlet conditions. Could you please tell me what i'm doing wrong and what are the right steps of compressor calculation should be? TIA, Oleg.

 November 14, 2011, 07:43 #2 Super Moderator   Sijal Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Islamabad Posts: 4,553 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 54 rpm is 17188.7 or -17188.7?

 November 14, 2011, 07:48 #3 Member   Oleg Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ukraine, Kharkov Posts: 57 Rep Power: 14 -17188.7 rpm

 November 14, 2011, 07:49 #4 Super Moderator   Sijal Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Islamabad Posts: 4,553 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 54 whats inlet and outlet pressure? and flow direction (-1 axial, 0 for other directions)?

 November 14, 2011, 08:05 #5 Member   Oleg Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ukraine, Kharkov Posts: 57 Rep Power: 14 Inlet total pressure 101.4 kPa, outlet static pressure = 138 kPa. I'm not sure what you mean on "flow direction". The flow goes in reverse direction comparing to how it shoud be (from outlet to inlet)

 November 14, 2011, 08:08 #6 Super Moderator   Sijal Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Islamabad Posts: 4,553 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 54 are you using rotor or complete stage. If rotor then 138 KPa is very high value, beyond the stall point!! Even with stator case, it is still too high value, have start with 101325 Pa and gradually increase in increment of 5000

 November 14, 2011, 08:14 #7 Member   Oleg Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ukraine, Kharkov Posts: 57 Rep Power: 14 really, i'm not sure that i'm doing as i suppose to do for compressor. dear Far. Maybe there's some specific BC or loss model need to be set for compressor calculation? Is the task formulation that i use right and compressor should calculate OK with such scope boundary conditions an the probles is just in me?

November 14, 2011, 08:19
#8
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Oleg
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Far are you using rotor or complete stage. If rotor then 138 KPa is very high value, beyond the stall point!! Even with stator case, it is still too high value, have start with 101325 Pa and gradually increase in increment of 5000
I'm using comlete stage.

Thanks for the advise. While increasing pressure on 5000 Pa what should i control as convergense parameter? Mass flow or maybe something else? in other words when should i decide that I can inrease pressure?

 November 14, 2011, 08:19 #9 Super Moderator   Sijal Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Islamabad Posts: 4,553 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 54 Simple. Just use 101325 pa as inlet pressure (or profile at later stages) and outlet pressure 101325, then gradually increase static pressure at outlet to 105000 110000 115000 120000 122500 125000 127000 128000 129000

 November 14, 2011, 08:33 #10 Member   Oleg Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ukraine, Kharkov Posts: 57 Rep Power: 14 I understood about increasing outlet pressure step by step. But what parameter should i control to decide that it is the right time to increase pressure? e.g. i'm doing calculation for P_stat_out=101325, controlling what parameter i can decide that it's time for increasing presure up to 105000? Mass flow rate stabilize? or maybe some of convergense parameters go lower than some specific value?

 November 14, 2011, 16:32 #11 Super Moderator   Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,728 Rep Power: 143 If the inlet pressure is about 101kPa and the outlet pressure is about 130kPa then you should be using a reference pressure of 101kPa and an inlet pressure of 0kPa, outlet of 29kPa. If you do not use a reference pressure you will have more round-off error and that can lead to convergence problems. Are you using a reference pressure?

November 15, 2011, 04:33
#12
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Oleg
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by ghorrocks If the inlet pressure is about 101kPa and the outlet pressure is about 130kPa then you should be using a reference pressure of 101kPa and an inlet pressure of 0kPa, outlet of 29kPa. If you do not use a reference pressure you will have more round-off error and that can lead to convergence problems. Are you using a reference pressure?
No i dont. I'll try.

 November 15, 2011, 06:35 #13 Member   Oleg Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ukraine, Kharkov Posts: 57 Rep Power: 14 Dear ghorrocks. I have a question concerning total pressure ratio. Can i plot total pressure at stage oultet while solver running the calculation in new monitor?

 November 15, 2011, 07:34 #14 Super Moderator   Sijal Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Islamabad Posts: 4,553 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 54 Could you please post some pics of your domain and mesh. Also post information about total no of nodes in domain, any information about the interface between rotor and stator. Any how, compressor flows are more difficult to handle than the turbine and you need to handle it by putting little load at start-up (in terms of rpm and pressure at outlet) and then ramp-up to desired value. Also search the forum for older posts regarding the same issue Red Ember likes this.

 November 15, 2011, 08:53 #15 Member   Oleg Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ukraine, Kharkov Posts: 57 Rep Power: 14 Thanks Far!

November 15, 2011, 09:33
#16
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Oleg
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Far Could you please post some pics of your domain and mesh. Also post information about total no of nodes in domain, any information about the interface between rotor and stator.
Number of nodes 229118. All interfaces are set as "Stage". The picture of domain is attached.
Attached Images
 St 37 domain.jpg (59.5 KB, 102 views)

 November 15, 2011, 23:32 #17 Super Moderator   Sijal Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Islamabad Posts: 4,553 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 54 This should also be noted as the no. of nodes increases compressor simulation tend to numerically stall at the higher pressure ratio than for coarse mesh. Therefore it is good idea to refine mesh further and also check the solution at lower back pressure for the current mesh. Moreover which turbulence model you are using? What is Y+ in domain? Since appropriate Y+ should be used for each model. Other things to be checked are (important to solution convergence and accuracy): aspect ratio, max and min angle, expansion rate

November 16, 2011, 05:29
#18
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Oleg
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Far This should also be noted as the no. of nodes increases compressor simulation tend to numerically stall at the higher pressure ratio than for coarse mesh. Therefore it is good idea to refine mesh further and also check the solution at lower back pressure for the current mesh. Moreover which turbulence model you are using? What is Y+ in domain? Since appropriate Y+ should be used for each model. Other things to be checked are (important to solution convergence and accuracy): aspect ratio, max and min angle, expansion rate
I'm using the SST model. On blade surface maximum Yplus is 200, on nozzle 100.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Domain Name | Orthog. Angle | Exp. Factor | Aspect Ratio |
+----------------------+---------------+--------------+--------------+
| | Minimum [deg] | Maximum | Maximum |
+----------------------+---------------+--------------+--------------+
| Rotor | 41.5 ok | 6 ok | 736 ok |
| Stage in | 85.7 OK | 1 OK | 7 OK |
| Stator | 46.0 ok | 40 ! | 52 OK |
| Global | 41.5 ok | 40 ! | 736 ok |
+----------------------+---------------+--------------+--------------+
| | %! %ok %OK | %! %ok %OK | %! %ok %OK |
+----------------------+---------------+--------------+--------------+
| Rotor | 0 <1 100 | 0 <1 100 | 0 2 98 |
| Stage in | 0 0 100 | 0 0 100 | 0 0 100 |
| Stator | 0 <1 100 | <1 1 99 | 0 0 100 |
| Global | 0 <1 100 | <1 <1 100 | 0 1 99 |
+----------------------+---------------+--------------+--------------+

 November 16, 2011, 07:16 #19 Super Moderator   Sijal Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Islamabad Posts: 4,553 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 54 Use K-epsilon (also use lower pressure at outlet as discussed earlier)

November 16, 2011, 07:19
#20
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Oleg
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Far Use K-epsilon (also use lower pressure at outlet as discussed earlier)
Thank you. I'll try.

 Tags calculation, cfx, compressor