
[Sponsors] 
About Some Concepts:Laminar flow, turbulent flow, steady flow and timedependent flow 

LinkBack  Thread Tools  Search this Thread  Display Modes 
March 2, 2013, 12:24 
About Some Concepts:Laminar flow, turbulent flow, steady flow and timedependent flow

#1 
New Member
Jing Shi
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 13 
Hi everyone,
I have some confusion between these basic conceptsLaminar flow, turbulent flow, steady flow and timedependent flow. I thought laminar flow was steady flow, while turbulent flow was connected with timedependent flow before, but I just found it should be wrong. Can I understand those concepts in the following way now: Laminar flow and turbulent flow are distinguished in the scale of space, while steady flow and timedependent flow are distinguished in the aspect of time; both laminar and turbulent flow could be either steady or timedependent? And another question is: For turbulent flow,"timeaveraged" properties are used in RANS equations, what is the scale of that time? Any discussions are appreciated. Regards, Jing 

March 2, 2013, 12:44 

#2 
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 134
Rep Power: 15 
Hi Jing.
Just to clarify: you're right in that laminar flow can be either steady or unsteady. However, turbulent flow is always unsteady. Turbulence is an inherently unsteady process since it involves rapid variations of the thermofluid properties. Turbulent flows can, nevertheless, be statistically steady, in the sense that the mean flow features do not vary over time. In RANS you are modelling all the turbulent scales so I think the time scale of the averaging procedure should be the characteristic time associated with the slowest eddy. Maybe some expert around here can tell you more about this stuff. Cheers, Michujo. 

March 2, 2013, 12:54 

#3 
Senior Member
Lefteris
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 337
Rep Power: 15 
Laminar is a flow in which the fluid flows in parallel layers while turbulence is a stochastic phenomenon. Steady is a flow where the properties reach a steady state after some time and they do not vary any more while in unsteady flow the properties vary in time although there might be a periodicity in the variation.
Solving a turbulent flow using RANS models means that you're solving a steady flow.
__________________
Lefteris 

March 2, 2013, 13:11 

#4  
New Member
Jing Shi
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 13 
Quote:
Cheers, Jing 

March 2, 2013, 13:18 

#5  
New Member
Jing Shi
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 13 
Quote:
Cheers, Jing 

March 2, 2013, 14:02 

#6 
Senior Member
Filippo Maria Denaro
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,764
Rep Power: 71 

October 5, 2018, 04:26 

#7 
New Member
Nimisha
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0 
RANS equation stands for Reynold's Average Navier Stokes equation and is essentially a time averaged mathematical model a.k.a representing steady flow.
To solve for turbulence, instead of employing the complete Navier Stokes equations, the simplified RANS model is used with additional equations to support it by adding additional parameters which empirically model turbulence effects (eg : kepsilon turbulence model). These addition equations model the fluctuations in flow properties with time. I hope my understanding is correct but please correct me if I am wrong. 

October 5, 2018, 16:55 

#8  
Senior Member
Lucky
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 5,665
Rep Power: 65 
Quote:
It is totally 100% incorrect to say that RANS solves for turbulence (maybe not exactly 100%, at least 99%). The variables you are solving for are the mean velocity, the timeaveraged velocity which is defined as containing no turbulence in it. You are solving for the mean velocity which has been influenced by turbulence (which you model). But never do you solve for the fluctuating velocities. You have to model them because you cannot solve for the mean flow without them. You can also imagine that I have a laminar flow in where there are no fluctuations but I apply Reynoldsaveraging and solve the RANS equations anyway. How can you solve for turbulence in this situation? There isn't any... The issue is you need to differentiate between a turbulent flow (i.e. a flow that is turbulent and contains turbulence) vs actually addressing the turbulent fluctuations themselves. RANS solves for the mean variables, which are influenced by the turbulence. But the mean variables cannot possibly be any farther from the turbulent fluctuations. 

October 5, 2018, 17:02 

#9  
Senior Member
Filippo Maria Denaro
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,764
Rep Power: 71 
Quote:
Actually, the issue is much more complex. This is because you can get a RANS solution without solving the RANS equations supplied by some approximate turbulence model. Just consider to have a DNS solution and perform explicitly the timeaveraging. You get the "exact" RANS solution and it totally contains the contribution of turbulence (i.e., the fluctuations) to the averaged field. 

Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Transient simulation not converging  skabilan  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  14  December 16, 2019 23:12 
Extrusion with OpenFoam problem No. Iterations 0  Lord Kelvin  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  8  March 28, 2016 11:08 
Define Profile, time dependent flow variation query  Sdezmond  Fluent UDF and Scheme Programming  5  March 3, 2013 11:13 
Orifice Plate with a fully developed flow  Problems with convergence  jonmec  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  3  July 28, 2011 05:24 
time averaged heat transfer in oscillating flow  Matthieu Ubas  Main CFD Forum  2  November 5, 1999 14:20 