
[Sponsors] 
November 2, 2001, 15:51 
Multiphase or Multicomponent

#1 
Guest
Posts: n/a

Sponsored Links
I have a bunch of solid particles each has different particle sizes. I can represent this solids by having 7 different diameters. This solid flows through a pipe bends(blown by constant velocity of air), the place I want to model its particle distribution based on their diameter, since there is centrifugal forces acting in there. Is it best to model this as a multicomponent or multiphase model? Can anyone tell me the difference between multicomponent and multiphase thermodynamic phases? Thanks Pandu 

Sponsored Links 
November 2, 2001, 16:54 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#2 
Guest
Posts: n/a

What do you mean with a multicomponent? An important question is, what is the volumefraction of the particles  is it a dense or dilute flow. Jan


November 3, 2001, 04:56 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#3 
Guest
Posts: n/a

if you talk about multiphase, I guess you mean gas and solid, for which the solid phase can be modeled on a lagrangian scheme because the particles are few, (i guess global particle hold up is low). Gas being the continuous phase and the the solids dispersed phase. Some people wil call this EulerianLangrangian scheme.
However, when you talk about multicomponents, how many compents do you have and which ones are they? In a multicomponent modelling, the species are mixed at molecular level, share the same pressure, velocity and temperature fields. As the relative size of the species become bigger, there is deviation from the uniform flow field and hence Multiphase modelling takes over from multicomponent modelling. kenny 

November 5, 2001, 14:54 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#4 
Guest
Posts: n/a

Hi
I think Pandu should talking about particles size distribution. In the CFX4 there are a model that treats a solidgas flow with multiple particle size. It is MUSIG. I try to use in a FCC Riser (dilute gassolid flow) and it seems very well. Ribeiro 

November 6, 2001, 04:04 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#5 
Guest
Posts: n/a

I think Pandu maybe should explain himself and the question was about solid particles, so the MUSIG model is not appropriate.
Just a question about the MUSIG model. Did you use the default MUSIG model to get the result that seems very well. Have you tried to adjust the constants in the MUSIG model, I am very interessed in how sensitive the model is on a real test case. Jan 

November 6, 2001, 12:38 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#6 
Guest
Posts: n/a

Jan
Indeed I saw a coworker to use just as a test case. It was a riser with a dilute gassolid flow. The solid phase was supposed to have 2 size groups. Without beakup or coalescence (BC). Thus, a very simple case. But we could enter some breakupcoalescence model because in the real equipment, the solid particles agglomerate and break up. I will try soon to model a real test case for solids (the suggestions of use appearing in the manual is because the BC model) 

November 6, 2001, 13:15 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#7 
Guest
Posts: n/a

Dear all,
I apoplogize for not being clear enough. Let me clarify this. The particle is just sand. The sand can be categorized into 7 different sizes by their diameter. At some length in a pipe, I want to look at cross sectional particle distribution, especially during the pipe bends. I havent consider the MUSIG model yet, but I certainly will. Pandu 

November 6, 2001, 14:47 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#8 
Guest
Posts: n/a

I have never considered using the MUSIG model for solid particle, but I guess it is never to late to learn something new.
I imagine that the MUSIG model is only relevant when coalence or breakup occurs. For a dilute flow case it must be a waste of time and inaccurate (I guess). I do think the MUSIG model was developed for liquid and gas bubbles  gas riser. (correct me if I am wrong) If that is true, one probably has to adjust the constants in the model to a gas solid flow, which require good skills and high quality measurements. Any experience, I have tried using the MUSIG model for steam atomization of oil, and atomization of water with pressurized air. I was not happy with the results, and belive the reason is the problems with the constants. I am going to do some experiments and will from that dig more into the problem. But if any out there already has some experience please share. Regards Jan 

November 8, 2001, 02:01 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#9 
Guest
Posts: n/a

Hi Riberio,
I do not understand how to set up this MUSIG model with no coalescence. In >>CFX4 >>OPTION and in :>MODEL BOUNDARIES, how do you set it up for my case. I still dont understand the musig volume fraction. Is it the fraction for the solid component only or the fraction as a whole components like air + solid. And also my aim is to look at the pipe cross section at a given length and see the solid distribution at that cross section . The solid particles, again can be categorised into 7 different diameters. Solid is just sand grain. Sorry to ask you the detail, but the manual did not specify much for this model. I am still confused, but I am sure this will work. Thanks for your suggestion, Pandu 

November 12, 2001, 18:22 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#10 
Guest
Posts: n/a

Ok, man. Let's go
The Musig model without Coalescence and Breakup results in a equation with two terms: transient and convective. Thus, the position of each group will depend on only of the fluid velocity. Of course, this is no longer a "Musig model". But an equation to describe the effects of bulk flow over particles. In >>OPTIONS, I would set the number of groups like the number of diameters. In >> Model Boundaries, I'd set the fraction of each size group that enters the equipment, i.e., I MUST know the grain size distribution. The Musig volume fraction is based in the dispersed phase. So, if you have 50% of a 50 microns particle and 50% of a 70 microns particle, you have musig volume fraction1 = 0.5 and musig volume fration2 = 0.5. In other words, is the fraction of dispersed phase that has the same diameter. I don't know if I was clear... 

January 7, 2002, 05:40 
Re: Multiphase or Multicomponent

#11 
Guest
Posts: n/a

Hi all,
I finally looked up at the musig model, and I followed the solver example (the model is not define in the cfx build), and it is working. However, when I want to use the model which i construct in cfx build, error message appear in CFX visualise. I still not have clear grasp how to appropriately model structure in cfx build (CFX 4.4). For example, do we make patches after meshing? How do you join 3 different solids, etc Thanks for the help Pandu 

Thread Tools  
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Difference of multicomponent and multiphase homogenous flows  Luk_Fiz  CFX  11  April 4, 2013 05:29 
multiphase multicomponent physics  ckleanth  CFX  3  June 4, 2009 20:15 
multiphase and multicomponent flow  charles  CFX  2  December 18, 2008 22:34 
Multiphase Multicomponent  David  Phoenics  0  January 19, 2004 01:50 
multiphase or multicomponent.... That's the probl  july  Siemens  1  March 7, 2002 03:27 
Sponsored Links 