# Rotating a sphere

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 April 16, 2010, 06:12 Rotating a sphere #1 New Member   Rick Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 9 Hello I'm trying to apply spinning on a sphere in the air, but I don't know how to do it, I've done two models one in 2D and another in 3D, someone told me it is with the dynamic mesh, but I really don't know how to do it, can someone help? Last edited by RiKR0K; April 16, 2010 at 08:33.

April 16, 2010, 11:26
#2
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Ling
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Another easier way is using MRF model (Multiple Reference Frame Model). You basically need to define an axisymmetric volume, such as a cylindrical volume to enclosure the sphere.
When you set up the model, you need to define this volume as a MRF zone, giving it an origins and axis vector of rotating. Also, you need to specify the wall of your sphere as a rotating one.
This is pretty much of it.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RiKR0K Hello I'm trying to apply spinning on a sphere in the air, but I don't know how to do it, I've done two models one in 2D and another in 3D, someone told me it is with the dynamic mesh, but I really don't know how to do it, can someone help?

April 16, 2010, 14:29
#3
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Rick
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I've done the geometry and mesh in Ansys Workbench, do you apply that MRF model in Fluent? I'm trying to find that option in fluent but I can't find it, in the cell zone conditions there is a option in edit that says motion type, but that one doesn't appear,could you please help me
best regards

Quote:
 Originally Posted by nstar Another easier way is using MRF model (Multiple Reference Frame Model). You basically need to define an axisymmetric volume, such as a cylindrical volume to enclosure the sphere. When you set up the model, you need to define this volume as a MRF zone, giving it an origins and axis vector of rotating. Also, you need to specify the wall of your sphere as a rotating one. This is pretty much of it.

 April 27, 2010, 11:38 #4 New Member   Rick Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 9 I would really appreciate if someone could supply me with a udf model of a rotating sphere

April 27, 2010, 22:57
#5
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Ling
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you don't have to use a UDF to define the MRF zone.

I don't have a Fluent in hand, so the description may not be accurate.

If you are using Fluent6 (i guess not), go to boundary conditions, choose the volume you want to set as a MRF zone. There's a drop box when you set the volume, select the option 'multiple rotating frame', also set the origin of the axis, vector of the axis, and the angular speed. Also, remember to set the sphere wall as a moving wall. Go to boundary conditions, set the wall, select 'moving wall', 'rotating', 'absolute speed', etc.

If you are using Fluent 12 (I never used a workbench, but I assume it has Fluent 12 with it), go find you volume in 'cell zones', not in 'boundary conditions'. Do the same thing above.

When all conditions are set, just initialize it, and plot a velocity contour on walls to double-check if your setting was right.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RiKR0K I would really appreciate if someone could supply me with a udf model of a rotating sphere

 April 28, 2010, 06:37 #6 New Member   Rick Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 9 Tnhx for the help, the Ansys I'm working is 12.1 and I just have one more question, it's regarding the geometry, I have done 2 diferent types: First solution: I've done a cylinder defined as fluid with a hollow sphere in it on workbench, and in Fluent I can only define the moving wall in the boundary conditions for the hollow sphere, in the cell zone conditions I only have a fluid zone, my question here is do I use MRF zone on the fluid? Second solution: I've done a cylinder defined as fluid with a frozen sphere in it defined as solid, in Fluent at the cell zone conditions I can define MRF zone on the sphere, but at the boundaty conditions there is one named ball (defined as wall) that when I edit I can't change to moving wall, and when I do the analyses it doesn't recognize the solid as one passes through it I would like to know which solution is the best, and how I can correct the problem in either of the chosen on? best regards

April 28, 2010, 10:47
#7
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Ling
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If you only want to study how the air response to the spinning shpere, I'd suggest to go the first way.
Yes, set the fluid zone as 'moving reference frame'.
Go to 'Cell Zone Conditions', click the volume you want to set as MRF, click 'Edit', Set 'Motion Type' as 'Moving Reference Frame', set correct 'Rotation-Axis Origin' and 'Rotaion-Axis Direction'. Initilization. You should be good to go.

I'd suggest you quickly go through a FLUENT MRF manual. If it's not available for you, check this,
http://jullio.pe.kr/fluent6.1/help/html/ug/node370.htm
Also, it will be good if you can check the offical MRF tutorial.

Good Luck.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RiKR0K Tnhx for the help, the Ansys I'm working is 12.1 and I just have one more question, it's regarding the geometry, I have done 2 diferent types: First solution: I've done a cylinder defined as fluid with a hollow sphere in it on workbench, and in Fluent I can only define the moving wall in the boundary conditions for the hollow sphere, in the cell zone conditions I only have a fluid zone, my question here is do I use MRF zone on the fluid? Second solution: I've done a cylinder defined as fluid with a frozen sphere in it defined as solid, in Fluent at the cell zone conditions I can define MRF zone on the sphere, but at the boundaty conditions there is one named ball (defined as wall) that when I edit I can't change to moving wall, and when I do the analyses it doesn't recognize the solid as one passes through it I would like to know which solution is the best, and how I can correct the problem in either of the chosen on? best regards

 April 28, 2010, 11:15 #8 Senior Member   Jouke de Baar Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 126 Rep Power: 10 Why not just have a stationary sphere, then set boundary conditions as (rotational) moving wall?

April 28, 2010, 11:17
#9
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Ling
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I agree, LOL.
MRF probably is not the best model to use here.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jack1980 Why not just have a stationary sphere, then set boundary conditions as (rotational) moving wall?

April 28, 2010, 11:46
#10
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Rick
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by nstar I agree, LOL. MRF probably is not the best model to use here.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jack1980 Why not just have a stationary sphere, then set boundary conditions as (rotational) moving wall?
I left the cell zone conditions of the fluid as stationary and at the boundary conditions I changed the hollow sphere to moving wall and added rotation, I just have another question, in the monitors section I can plot the cl (lift coefficient) and cd (drag coefficient), how can I plot the cs (spinning coefficient or magnus coefficient)?

 April 28, 2010, 12:05 #11 Senior Member   Jouke de Baar Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 126 Rep Power: 10 What is a Magnus coefficient?

April 28, 2010, 12:12
#12
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Rick
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by jack1980 What is a Magnus coefficient?
It's the effect of the spin you shoot a ball elsewhere the center, it's also called the sideways coefficient

 April 28, 2010, 12:23 #13 Senior Member   Jouke de Baar Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 126 Rep Power: 10 I might misunderstand but isn't it just another word for lift? Remind, you can actually specify in which sideways direction you want to calculate the lift coefficient. It can be in any direction you want (although it should be perpendicular to the incoming flow).

 April 29, 2010, 13:59 #14 New Member   Rick Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 9 Hello I've done the analysis on the sphere with one option on stationary wall and another with rotation and the results of cl and cd are really close to one each other, I think it's not working...

 April 29, 2010, 16:09 #15 Senior Member   Jouke de Baar Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 126 Rep Power: 10 Hi, gave it a try in 2D. For my settings I found: 0 rad/s -> cl = -5e-5, cd = 2.7 5 rad/s -> cl = -7, cd = 3.9 Here's a picture of the stream functions: Does your simulation work for 2D? If you're doing 3D, are the orientations of the axis of rotation and the cl vector correct?

April 30, 2010, 05:51
#16
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Rick
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In 2D, I defined the k-e standard model and defined a inlet velocity of 10 m/s, what was yours? after the iteration my values were:

0 rad/s -> cl = 2.41e-2, cd = 8.9e-1
5 rad/s -> cl = 2.17e-2, cd = 8.9e-1

the cd values were the same, I think something is wrong, I edited the ball (wall) in boundary conditions and put (in wall motion) moving wall with rotational and speed 5 rad/s, I left the rotation-axis origin x-0 y-0, does this influence something?

best regards

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jack1980 Hi, gave it a try in 2D. For my settings I found: 0 rad/s -> cl = -5e-5, cd = 2.7 5 rad/s -> cl = -7, cd = 3.9 Here's a picture of the stream functions: Does your simulation work for 2D? If you're doing 3D, are the orientations of the axis of rotation and the cl vector correct?

Last edited by RiKR0K; April 30, 2010 at 06:43.

 April 30, 2010, 07:44 #17 Senior Member   Jouke de Baar Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 126 Rep Power: 10 That is really strange ... I've copied some of my settings. I am calculating in 2D (but not axisymmetric). My sphere radius is 1 m. My domain is a bit small of course, but it's just a quick start. Some settings: fluid: regular air velocity inlet: 1 m/s outflow boundary sphere: moving wall, rotational, origin x=0 y=0, speed = 5 rad/s, no slip standard k-epsilon, standard wall function for 1st upwind: wall y+ = 50 +/- 10 cd = 3.9 cl = -7 for 2nd upwind: wall y+ = 49 +/- 9 cd = 1.9 cl = -10 It's a first rough attempt, but I can definitily see some lift being generated. I hope this helps

 April 30, 2010, 07:47 #18 Senior Member   Jouke de Baar Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 126 Rep Power: 10 By the way I'm not sure about the reference area. I think I put it at 1 m, but probably it should be 2m??

April 30, 2010, 08:00
#19
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Rick
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My radius was 34,5 cm, I have a question where do you apply this:

for 1st upwind:
wall y+ = 50 +/- 10
cd = 3.9
cl = -7

for 2nd upwind:
wall y+ = 49 +/- 9
cd = 1.9
cl = -10

I got my cl and cd from the last values on iteration window, I applied Second order upwind to momentum, turbulent kinetic energy and turbulent dissipation rate in the spacial discretization

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jack1980 That is really strange ... I've copied some of my settings. I am calculating in 2D (but not axisymmetric). My sphere radius is 1 m. My domain is a bit small of course, but it's just a quick start. Some settings: fluid: regular air velocity inlet: 1 m/s outflow boundary sphere: moving wall, rotational, origin x=0 y=0, speed = 5 rad/s, no slip standard k-epsilon, standard wall function for 1st upwind: wall y+ = 50 +/- 10 cd = 3.9 cl = -7 for 2nd upwind: wall y+ = 49 +/- 9 cd = 1.9 cl = -10 It's a first rough attempt, but I can definitily see some lift being generated. I hope this helps

April 30, 2010, 08:34
#20
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Rick
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This how my mesh looks like:
Attached Images
 mesh.jpg (69.7 KB, 56 views) meshzoom.jpg (36.4 KB, 48 views)

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