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January 27, 2010, 16:51 
nut and nuTilda

#1 
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Dear Foamers,
I am new to OpenFOAM, so my question may be silly. What's the difference between nut and nuTilda? Isn't nut for kinematic turbulence viscosity? But what for nuTilda? Thanks, Phile 

January 29, 2010, 01:43 

#2  
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Quote:
I am also confused about this. And I have checked the OpenFOAM Programmer's C++ Reference, which you can find in the website of opencfd ltd. It seems nuTilda is a parameter for LES simulation. However, I donot know much about LES. If you can please check it and tell me about it if possible. Jinbiao 

January 29, 2010, 03:25 

#3 
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Niklas Nordin
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perhaps it might help if you check in src/turbulenceModels/incompressible/RAS/SpalartAllmaras
and scroll to the bottom of the .C file nut_.internalField() = fv1*nuTilda_.internalField(); 

January 29, 2010, 04:07 

#4 
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Thanks. Niklas. It does help a lot.
It is great to find out the answer. nuTilda should be SpalartAllmaras variable. So it belongs to the SpalartAllmaras model which is one of the RAS model. That is to say, when I am using the ke model, I donot need it. Am I right? Jinbiao Last edited by JinBiao; January 29, 2010 at 04:24. 

January 29, 2010, 04:44 

#5 
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Niklas Nordin
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correct


February 1, 2010, 12:32 

#6 
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Anonymous
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I was really confused since the nuTilda file exists even with kEpsilon models in the tutorial. Now I know it is superfluous.
Thank you, guys! Phile 

September 30, 2010, 10:48 
nut is needed after V1.6

#7 
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Jie (Jay) Zhang
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nut (turb viscosity) is needed after V1.6


January 30, 2011, 20:25 

#8 
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Davide Lupo Conti
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hello everyone!
can someone tell me how to initialize nut and nuTilda? I always used kOmegaSST and for those I found the formulas to initialize k and omega, but I couldn't find out how to initialize variables for spalartAlllmaras.. Thank you! 

January 31, 2011, 10:29 

#9 
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Travis Carrigan
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If I understand correctly, If you'd like to initialize and record nut and nuTilda when using kOmegaSST, simply place them in the 0 directory and set them to 0...or you could calculate them based on k and omega.
Because nut and nuTilda aren't required when using kOmegaSST (only k and omega are required), by placing the nut and nuTilda dictionary files in the 0 directory, you're forcing OpenFOAM to record those values at each iteration. This is good for postprocessing as you don't have to calculate them yourself after the simulation is over. Note: I believe that nut and nuTilda are only required for the SpalartAllmaras turbulence model. Hope this helps. 

January 31, 2011, 19:55 

#10 
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Davide Lupo Conti
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Hi Trevis,
thanks for the quick reply.. I realized now that the post was written in an awful English...(late night...) I well know that nut and nuTilda are not requested when using kOmegaSTT... Now I am testing spalartAllmaras model and I don't know which values assign in the 0/nut and 0/nuTilda... (i'm using freestream bc everywhere except for on the foil, where I'm using wallfunctions for nut and fixedvalue for nuTilde )... Thaks! 

February 9, 2011, 10:55 

#11 
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Hello!
I have a question... I use SpalartAllmaras model, so I need nut and nuTilda. As I understand, nut is turbulent viscosity and nuTilda is kinematic turbulenr viscosity. Am I right? And how can I calculate them? 

February 16, 2011, 04:11 

#12  
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Robert Ong
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Quote:
What is the appropriate value for fv1? some say 0.1 the others say 0.5?? Thanks and regards, Robert 

February 16, 2011, 04:42 

#13 
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Robert Ong
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August 6, 2012, 16:08 

#14 
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Rafael Valenzuela Musura
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rob3rt 0ng
Can you answer the question you've asked please I don't know what value should I use! thanks! 

August 6, 2012, 23:49 

#15 
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Robert Ong
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Hi Rafael,
From Turbulence modelling for CFD book by D. Wilcox, fv1 is defined as x^3/(x^3 + cv1^3), where x is nut/nu and cv1 is a closure coefficient of 7.1. In my case, fv1 adds up to 1.00. Regards, Robert 

August 7, 2012, 21:09 

#16 
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Rafael Valenzuela Musura
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Yes but the X is defines as nutilda/nu so i'm confused. Nut is dependent only for the "arbitrary" value of nutilda. In other thread I've read that nutilda=3*nut=nu*0.1 is that correct?
Thanks 

August 7, 2012, 23:25 

#17 
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Robert Ong
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x is defined as nut/nu. Nut is turbulent kinematic viscosity which can be readily work out based on your freestream turbulence parameters.
Regards, Robert 

August 8, 2012, 02:56 

#18 
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Tobias Holzmann
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Hi all,
just one question. The SpalartAllmaras model is just a analytical description to get the turbulent length scale and the kinetic energy of the turbulence to calculate mu_t. I refer to Ferziger and Peric. So whats the advantage of that model instead of using a two differential equation model in RANS? In my human mind you should get the better results with a two equation model instead of using one equation or just analytical description for that, or not? Maybe in the past computational resources were very expensive and it was better to use a none, or one equation model for that but today ? Tobi Last edited by Tobi; August 8, 2012 at 03:31. 

August 8, 2012, 08:00 

#19 
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Rafael Valenzuela Musura
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Robert Ong
I'm not shure that's the way it work, because you are defining nut=fv1*nutilda, fv1=x^3/(x^3 + cv1^3), and like you say X is a function of nut, if so you're defining nut as a function of nut, nut=nutida*f(nut). in the wiki page http://www.cfdonline.com/Wiki/SpalartAllmaras_model, X is defined as nutlinda/nu. So what's the rigth interpretation?. Tobi, I have the same question, I was trying to get a ke simulation but it always crashed, so I took a step backward to a more simple model first. If you have the answer for that just let me know. 

August 8, 2012, 08:14 

#20  
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Tobias Holzmann
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Quote:
Hey rafamusura, well I am writing my masterthesis at the moment and getting deeper in the theory. All your navier stokes equation are in differential equations so its logical and makes sence to use differential equation for calculating the turbulent viscosity. So in the simple methods  none, one, or two equation , think you should prefer two equation models, especially if you are using complex geometry or better reynoldsmodels, couse of the modelling of the stress tensor refering to Ferziger and Peric. But you have do decide how accurate your simulation should be and not every model is working good for all geometry`s and problems. Its possible that a solution of reynoldsmodels compared to two equation models is the same for the first geometry and could be very different for another geometry. I am not a pro in turbulence modelling but for RANS and the viscosity models i think you should use two equation models for closure the navier stokes equations. And your keps. problem is a BC problem or a problem with your initialization. But that `s a other topic If I am wrong, please correct me! 

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