CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > Software User Forums > Siemens > STAR-CCM+

Is Star-CCM+ good for electronic cooling

Register Blogs Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree3Likes
  • 1 Post By cramr5
  • 1 Post By cramr5
  • 1 Post By cwl

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   September 6, 2022, 00:18
Default Is Star-CCM+ good for electronic cooling
  #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
Rep Power: 16
CFDfan is on a distinguished road
Hi, I know star ccm+ is a high end CFD code covering numerous application areas, but I wander if it is good enough for electronic cooling. The specifics there are: complex 3D geometry, needing "cleaning" before meshing, geometry manupulations (moving, copying, boolean, deleting), cooling fan models, thermal joints, perforated plates/porous medium, turbulent flows, radiation, etc
Are there tutorial video(s) or tutorial pdf files to see: a)how difficult is to build an electronic cooling model and b)solver's performance and accuracy.
CFDfan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 8, 2022, 12:06
Default
  #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
Rep Power: 16
CFDfan is on a distinguished road
No any comments, so it looks like there is nothing positive to say about the applicapability of star CCM+ for electronic cooling
CFDfan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 9, 2022, 04:12
Default
  #3
Member
 
Marc Ricart
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 65
Rep Power: 4
cramr5 is on a distinguished road
Hi,

There is a Tutorial about a GPU Cooling with a Fan and GPU heat generation.
Also, There is on Youtube a long video of someone doing a doublel CPU Cooling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCUr2AMqrT0

All the things you mention from radiation, turbulence, fan models, etc etc are possible to do with STAR-CCM+
CFDfan likes this.
cramr5 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 10, 2022, 22:33
Default
  #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
Rep Power: 16
CFDfan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramr5 View Post
Hi,

There is a Tutorial about a GPU Cooling with a Fan and GPU heat generation.
Also, There is on Youtube a long video of someone doing a doublel CPU Cooling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCUr2AMqrT0

All the things you mention from radiation, turbulence, fan models, etc etc are possible to do with STAR-CCM+
Thank you for spending time to answer. I know Star CCM is capable of simulating the conditions you listed that are needed for electronic cooling. All these youtube tutorials are however mainly for educational and marketing purposes. I was hoping to get an opinion of somebody who used it extensively in real applications and was getting truthful results.
CFDfan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 11, 2022, 02:03
Default
  #5
Member
 
Marc Ricart
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 65
Rep Power: 4
cramr5 is on a distinguished road
StarCCM+ is a very powerful tool that can be used for many things both in Academia and/or Top Level Industry .

Of course, as most of this tools, the validity of the results you get is proportional to the reliability of your input data.

Going back to you initial questions, Can STARCCM+ do...

- complex 3D geometry, needing "cleaning" before meshing: Yes
- geometry manupulations (moving, copying, boolean, deleting): Yes
- cooling fan models: Yes
- thermal joints: Yes
- perforated plates/porous medium: Yes
- turbulent flows: Yes
- radiation: Yes


Are there tutorial video(s) or tutorial pdf files to see:

a)how difficult is to build an electronic cooling model: Difficulty will be highly dependant and you input data/files

b)solver's performance and accuracy: As accurate as you input model / data is
CFDfan likes this.
cramr5 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 11, 2022, 20:32
Default
  #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
Rep Power: 16
CFDfan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramr5 View Post
StarCCM+ is a very powerful tool that can be used for many things both in Academia and/or Top Level Industry .

Of course, as most of this tools, the validity of the results you get is proportional to the reliability of your input data.

Going back to you initial questions, Can STARCCM+ do...

- complex 3D geometry, needing "cleaning" before meshing: Yes
- geometry manupulations (moving, copying, boolean, deleting): Yes
- cooling fan models: Yes
- thermal joints: Yes
- perforated plates/porous medium: Yes
- turbulent flows: Yes
- radiation: Yes


Are there tutorial video(s) or tutorial pdf files to see:

a)how difficult is to build an electronic cooling model: Difficulty will be highly dependant and you input data/files

b)solver's performance and accuracy: As accurate as you input model / data is
Thank you. I assume by default that the input data is correct thus this variable should be excluded from the equation. The main problem of the 3D electronic cooling model is the large number of essential components (hundreds or more) with large variety of shapes. The essential means they all generate power loss and should be accounted for. The complex 3D model creates issues with geometry cleaning, meshing and leads to possible solver issues.

Last edited by CFDfan; November 11, 2022 at 23:25.
CFDfan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 16, 2022, 09:37
Default
  #7
Member
 
Marc Ricart
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 65
Rep Power: 4
cramr5 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFDfan View Post
Thank you. I assume by default that the input data is correct thus this variable should be excluded from the equation. The main problem of the 3D electronic cooling model is the large number of essential components (hundreds or more) with large variety of shapes. The essential means they all generate power loss and should be accounted for. The complex 3D model creates issues with geometry cleaning, meshing and leads to possible solver issues.
I have just seen that Siemens has also a Software on SIMCENTRE called "Flotherm" That seems to be targeted towards Electronics cooling.
https://www.plm.automation.siemens.c.../flotherm.html
cramr5 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 17, 2022, 02:20
Default
  #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
Rep Power: 16
CFDfan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramr5 View Post
I have just seen that Siemens has also a Software on SIMCENTRE called "Flotherm" That seems to be targeted towards Electronics cooling.
https://www.plm.automation.siemens.c.../flotherm.html
Thank you. I'm familiar with Flotherm, there is also something better-Floefd and even better-scStream. They are all suitable for Electronic cooling. Unfortunately all of them use structured mesh will all its limitations. StarCCM could employ unstructured mesh and that's why I asked the forum if somebody has been using successfully StarCCM for electronic cooling.
CFDfan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 6, 2022, 07:07
Default
  #9
cwl
Senior Member
 
Chaotic Water
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Elgrin Fau
Posts: 437
Rep Power: 18
cwl is on a distinguished road
It works fine. Name any possible reason - why it wouldn't be good for electronic cooling.
cwl is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 7, 2022, 21:29
Default
  #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
Rep Power: 16
CFDfan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwl View Post
It works fine. Name any possible reason - why it wouldn't be good for electronic cooling.
Your question is "why not", while I was looking for the opinion of a satisfied/unsatisfied user working with starccm in this application area.
My concerns are related to cleaning and successfully meshing complex geometries with hundreds of (essential) solids, having various shapes and sizes
as well as to solver convergence when dealing with hundreds of heat sources, simultaneous external and internal flows/heat transfer, simultaneous gas and liquid cooling, porosities, fans and a few other specifics related to electronic cooling.
CFDfan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 7, 2022, 21:37
Default
  #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
Rep Power: 16
CFDfan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwl View Post
It works fine. Name any possible reason - why it wouldn't be good for electronic cooling.
Your question is "why not", while I was looking for the opinion of a satisfied/unsatisfied user working with starccm in this application area.
My concerns are related to cleaning and successfully meshing complex geometries with hundreds of (essential) solids, having various shapes and sizes
as well as to solver convergence when dealing with hundreds of heat sources, simultaneous external and internal flows/heat transfer, simultaneous gas and liquid cooling, porosities, fans and a few other specifics related to electronic cooling.
CFDfan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 8, 2022, 03:16
Default
  #12
cwl
Senior Member
 
Chaotic Water
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Elgrin Fau
Posts: 437
Rep Power: 18
cwl is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFDfan View Post
Your question is "why not" ...
Your initial question wasn't any bit specific either


Quote:
Originally Posted by CFDfan View Post
... while I was looking for the opinion of a satisfied/unsatisfied user working with starccm in this application area.
I'm both - satisfied and unsatisfied


Quote:
Originally Posted by CFDfan View Post
My concerns are related to cleaning and successfully meshing complex geometries with hundreds of (essential) solids, having various shapes and sizes
Working with geometry is possible in Star-CCM+, but it is a nightmare and 3D-CAD module in Star looks like an autistic child with Down syndrome and development delay of about 20 years.

So basically I (and its not just my opinion) would say - time spent on working on 3D model in Star should be reduced to as little as possible.
Personally I clean geometry with SpaceClaim, although it would be more handy to use NX (there is a live-link between, thus no need for export/import in neutral formats) or Solid Edge (still waiting for live-link to it in Star).


Quote:
Originally Posted by CFDfan View Post
as well as to solver convergence when dealing with hundreds of heat sources, simultaneous external and internal flows/heat transfer, simultaneous gas and liquid cooling, porosities, fans and a few other specifics related to electronic cooling.
Everything mentioned starting and including meshing works very well.

The thing is that Star as a tool is pretty much sophisticated and customizable if you dig deep - and the deeper you dig the more possibilities and features you find.

In some ways Star is like a "To build a house you have first to collect some clay and fire the bricks" - some basic things have to be implemented manually, but again - the flexibility is great, giving you an opportunity not just "to build a house" but also to "mine some iron and uranium ore and to build the nuclear reactor next to your brick house".
There is also a way to automate it with macros.
CFDfan likes this.
cwl is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 8, 2022, 12:21
Default
  #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 205
Rep Power: 16
CFDfan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwl View Post
Your initial question wasn't any bit specific either



I'm both - satisfied and unsatisfied



Working with geometry is possible in Star-CCM+, but it is a nightmare and 3D-CAD module in Star looks like an autistic child with Down syndrome and development delay of about 20 years.

So basically I (and its not just my opinion) would say - time spent on working on 3D model in Star should be reduced to as little as possible.
Personally I clean geometry with SpaceClaim, although it would be more handy to use NX (there is a live-link between, thus no need for export/import in neutral formats) or Solid Edge (still waiting for live-link to it in Star).



Everything mentioned starting and including meshing works very well.

The thing is that Star as a tool is pretty much sophisticated and customizable if you dig deep - and the deeper you dig the more possibilities and features you find.

In some ways Star is like a "To build a house you have first to collect some clay and fire the bricks" - some basic things have to be implemented manually, but again - the flexibility is great, giving you an opportunity not just "to build a house" but also to "mine some iron and uranium ore and to build the nuclear reactor next to your brick house".
There is also a way to automate it with macros.
Thank you. Very informative.
CFDfan is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel cell in star ccm Xuekun Siemens 2 January 27, 2016 19:01
what is the best method to learn analysis using star ccm? vignesh_n STAR-CCM+ 3 March 3, 2015 13:16
How can I load Star CCM to Vista? student_58 STAR-CCM+ 0 December 21, 2012 17:29
How to extract an internal volume in star ccm? itsme_kit Siemens 11 February 16, 2012 13:39
Urgent star ccm help itsme_kit Siemens 4 February 2, 2012 17:54


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:37.