
[Sponsors] 
October 23, 2009, 00:51 
Barotropic Flow Analysis CFX

#1 
New Member
Claudio
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 9 
Hello,
I want to perform a barotropic flow analysis in CFX, but I don't know if this is possible. I want the density to depend only on the pressure, to analyze the effects of compressibility. I want to use the mass conservation, momentum conservation, a viscosity law plus a relation between density and pressure, such as: dp/drho = E / rho in which E is a bulk modulus. How can this be done? I'm using CFX 12.0. Thanks. 

October 23, 2009, 05:08 

#2 
Senior Member
Matthias Voß
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 446
Rep Power: 13 
hi,
just write an expression for the density of your material including the pressure p(p=pabs if p_ref.=0). Sounds so easy, maybe i am missing smth. here. Am i? neewbie 

October 23, 2009, 06:46 

#3 
Super Moderator
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 13,193
Rep Power: 102 
You are correct neewbie, that should work. I have done it before to model compressibility in high pressure hydraulic systems and it works fine. It will mean you start getting acoustic waves and other compressible flow features which make convergence harder but as long as you are careful it works fine.


October 23, 2009, 07:17 

#4 
Senior Member
Matthias Voß
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 446
Rep Power: 13 
When dealing with hydraulic systems and compressibility how did you get rid of neg.pressures while evaluating enthalpy, entropy,.. and so one? that´s what you´re referring to when saying "being careful"??
neewbie 

October 23, 2009, 07:35 

#5 
Super Moderator
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 13,193
Rep Power: 102 
If all you are doing is specifying a variable density (as a function of pressure as described above) then there is no enthalpy or entropy as you do not have an energy equation. The convergence difficulties simply come from compressible flow effects such as acoustic waves. The acoustic waves means another time scale has been introduced into the system which is usually orders of magnitude shorter than any other time scales, so you will probably need to use time steps much smaller than the equivalent incompressible simulation.


October 23, 2009, 08:15 

#6 
Senior Member
Matthias Voß
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 446
Rep Power: 13 
Could one specify a smaller scale only for the momentum eq.?
hmm.. maybe won´t work, because for continuity eq. you also need a small one because they´re coupled. Tricky. 

October 23, 2009, 12:28 

#7 
New Member
Claudio
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 9 
Thanks a lot for your replies.
I'm a new user. Could you help me with what would be the notation when I define the density. What I don't know is how to notate the derivative of rho with respect to p. dp/drho = E/rho So the expression should be: rho = drho/dp * E As you can see, rho is part of a differential equation. Am I on the right track here using that as my density expression for the barotropic flow? I see that the differential equation could be solved for p: p = E * ln(rho) + C1 where C1 is an integration constant. But according to your advice, what I need is a expression for rho. From the previous expression, I could do: rho = exp ( (pC1)/E ) Would defining the density like that work? Thanks again! 

October 24, 2009, 06:01 

#8  
Super Moderator
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 13,193
Rep Power: 102 
Quote:
Claudio I think you are heading in the wrong direction. Try this: Look at eqn 2 here: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/bu...ityd_585.html You then define a reference pressure, and a reference density at that reference pressure. Then you can recast the equation to give you density at any pressure using the reference density and reference pressure as the base. 

October 26, 2009, 10:34 

#9 
New Member
Claudio
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 9 
Hi Glenn,
Equation 2 is exactly what I had in mind. What I don't understand is how to indicate to CFX that it needs to use that expression for the density. I'm using Ansys 12.0 and up to now have defined the density as constant in my simulations. In eq. 2, density is not "explicitly" defined, but rather defined as part of a differential equation. That is what I don't get. In this case, how should I define the density in CFX? In other words, where before I put a constant value, what do I write now? On the other hand, solving that differential equation analitically is easy. I did that analysis to obtain the explicit expression for density to be plugged directly into the density definition in CFX. I believe that what you said about the reference pressure and density is the same as solving for the constant C1 in the expression in my previous post. Thanks for you help. I hope my question was a little clearer now. 

October 26, 2009, 18:00 

#10 
Super Moderator
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 13,193
Rep Power: 102 
If you assume the bulk modulus is constant then the d(rho) and d(P) can be replaced with rho(reference)rho and P(reference)P. You can then rewrite in terms of rho and you're done. This is the easiest way to do it.


Thread Tools  
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Flow Analysis tilting Pad thrust bearing using CFX  julien  CFX  5  April 9, 2014 08:38 
Time domain analysis of Unsteady Flow  Nikunj Raghuvanshi  FLUENT  2  December 25, 2012 14:09 
Flow meter Design  CD adapco Group Marketing  CDadapco  3  June 21, 2011 08:33 
turbulence model in CFX, seperated flow  F. Bhuiyan  CFX  3  August 9, 2009 23:28 
CFX 2D ANALYSIS BOUNDARY CONDITION  fat bug  CFX  1  February 19, 2008 17:22 