CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > Software User Forums > ANSYS > FLUENT

mixture model for cavitation

Register Blogs Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By mateus
  • 1 Post By mateus

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   March 26, 2009, 17:44
Default mixture model for cavitation
  #1
New Member
 
Kostas
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 17
mech5190 is on a distinguished road
I have a hydrofoil and i study the cavitation which is showed on it. I use the spalart-allmaras turbulent model and the mixture model for cavitation.
When i run the hydrofoil without cavitation (i dont use mixture model), i take a converge solution, but when i run it with the mixture model i take diverging solution after some iterations (and say: diverge x-mom).

What must i attend ?
mech5190 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   May 13, 2009, 04:31
Default
  #2
New Member
 
Matevz Dular
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 11
Rep Power: 18
mateus is on a distinguished road
Hi there,

If you want I can send you several papers I've published on cavitation modeling in Fluent.
Just send me an email.

By
Mateus
-mAx- likes this.
mateus is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   May 15, 2009, 10:54
Default
  #3
New Member
 
Kostas
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 17
mech5190 is on a distinguished road
my mail is : mech5190@upnet.gr
Send me these paper which tell me.
mech5190 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 26, 2011, 18:28
Default
  #4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 35
Rep Power: 15
Jeremie84 is on a distinguished road
Hi,
I am currently modeling a marine turbine and I am studying the cavitation effects on the turbine. I am facing the same issue. My first simulations ran very well without cavitation (without the mixture model). But when I try with the mixture model, I get a divergence problem : divergence in AMG solver. I tried to reduce the URF, but it does not work. I tried segregated and coupled solver, but I got the same problem. I am running out of ideas.
Did you finally solved this problem and how ?
Thank you
Jeremie
Jeremie84 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 28, 2011, 02:28
Default
  #5
New Member
 
Matevz Dular
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 11
Rep Power: 18
mateus is on a distinguished road
Hi,

I got some nice results using fluent to model cavitation... you can find them in paper:

Experimental evaluation of numerical simulation of cavitating flow around hydrofoil Original Research Article
European Journal of Mechanics - B/Fluids, Volume 24, Issue 4, July-August 2005, Pages 522-538
Matevž Dular, Rudolf Bachert, Bernd Stoffel, Brane Širok

Give me you're mail so that I'll contact you directly...

Best regards,
Matevz
tirthankar likes this.
mateus is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 28, 2011, 11:52
Default
  #6
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 35
Rep Power: 15
Jeremie84 is on a distinguished road
Hi,
Thank you for your answer.
As I wrote, I want to simulate a marine turbine in a steady water flow with ANSYS FLUENT 12. I study the performances of the turbine. My first simulations ran very well. I reached converged solutions for three different rpm. The conditions were :
- steady-state, pressure-based solver
- NO multiphase model
- Realizable k-e with wall treatment (I used an hybrid mesh with a fine prism boundary layer around the blades)
- Velocity inlet, pressure outlet, rotating walls
- SIMPLE pressure-velocity coupling, second order discretization

With these results, I figured out that I could not ignore the cavitation effects. So I tried the same simulation with the mixture model (with the slip velocity disabled). But the solution diverged after 10 iterations (divergence detected in AMG solver). Then, I tried with the Volume Fraction equation disabled. I thought I was going to get the same results I got with my first simulations, but I still got a divergence detected in AMG solver.
I reduced the URFs, I chose a coupled pressure-velocity scheme, a first-order discretization. But I always got the same divergence issue.
I really don't understand why I cannot reach a converged solution with the mixture model, even with the VF equation disabled.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Regards,

Jeremie
Jeremie84 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   April 7, 2011, 12:48
Default
  #7
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 35
Rep Power: 15
Jeremie84 is on a distinguished road
Hi,
I still have difficulties with the cavitation model in Fluent 12, and to get a converged solution with the cavitation model activated (Full Cavitation Model).
So I wanted to have a converged solution without the mixture model, and to be sure of the pressure field. I use a uniform velocity-inlet condition, a pressure-outlet condition, and the domain is closed by walls where a slip condition is set. The operating pressure is set to 0, and I set the static pressure outlet in order to get a total pressure corresponding to the depth of the turbine. I don’t change the default value for the vaporization pressure (2367.8 Pa).
I have some doubts concerning these settings because I read somewhere that the operating pressure should be set equal to the ambient pressure, and the vapour pressure equal to 80000Pa.
Does anyone have some advice about these pressure settings?

Thank you

Jeremie
Jeremie84 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   April 13, 2011, 23:51
Default
  #8
New Member
 
liwan
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2
Rep Power: 0
futuredream is on a distinguished road
Hi,Matevz Dular
i got the same problem when i simulated a model Francis turbine with full cavitation.
my email is liwan@whu.edu.cn and send me some papers
Best regards
Li wan
futuredream is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   June 7, 2011, 03:09
Default
  #9
New Member
 
liwan
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2
Rep Power: 0
futuredream is on a distinguished road
Hi,Jeremie
how about your simulation? i have the same issue about the cavitation.
we can communicate with each other and get some solutions.
my email is liwan@whu.edu.cn
best regards
Li Wan
futuredream is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 28, 2013, 13:03
Default
  #10
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2
Rep Power: 0
eaxym is on a distinguished road
Hello Matevz,

I am trying to simulate cavitation in journal bearings using the mixture model. Could you send me your papers on cavitation modeling (I may get some help on how to setup my cavitation model in FLUENT).

My email is yousufmansoor@hotmail.com

Cheers,
Yousuf
eaxym is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 28, 2013, 13:14
Default
  #11
New Member
 
Matevz Dular
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 11
Rep Power: 18
mateus is on a distinguished road
Hi Yousuf,

You can downoload all my papers from my web page: www2.arnes.si/~mdula

or just type matevz dular in google to find my page.

Best regards and good luck with your work...
Mateus
mateus is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   November 28, 2013, 16:37
Default
  #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 268
Rep Power: 17
Zaktatir is on a distinguished road
Hi,

let us concentrate only on the cavitation and not the full cavitation (gas cavitation) which occurs in many industrial applications and needs considering dissolution and absorption of non condensing gas.

First of al: use either the schnell sauer or Zwart-Belarmi.

Mixture model without slip: bubbles won't grow up since the flow is high turbulent and the vapor bubbles are assumed then to flow as quick as the carrier phase.

Start with very tiny time steps: Cavitation is very quick process, mechanic driven and numerical expensive. The most simulations i carried out the time step was below 1e-4/1e-5.

Please do not the singhal mode which depicts one aspect of the ful cavitation model since it's highly instable and is based on old numerical inplementation
Zaktatir is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 7, 2016, 04:24
Default
  #13
New Member
 
tirthankar moulick
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0
tirthankar is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateus View Post
Hi,

I got some nice results using fluent to model cavitation... you can find them in paper:

Experimental evaluation of numerical simulation of cavitating flow around hydrofoil Original Research Article
European Journal of Mechanics - B/Fluids, Volume 24, Issue 4, July-August 2005, Pages 522-538
Matevž Dular, Rudolf Bachert, Bernd Stoffel, Brane Širok

Give me you're mail so that I'll contact you directly...

Best regards,
Matevz
hey bro.. i want to know which mixture model to use to get cavitation in backward facing step problem in reattachment zone in fluent 2015 version??please reply
tirthankar is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fluent's Mixture model in CFX FLuentSwitch CFX 14 December 27, 2014 10:15
MULTIPHASE - FREE SURFACE & MIXTURE MODEL Aris FLUENT 3 April 28, 2009 12:46
about the mixture model and cavitation model lius FLUENT 2 January 11, 2006 05:55
Slip velocity in Mixture model John FLUENT 6 October 14, 2005 03:16
convergence of mixture model major FLUENT 2 October 5, 2004 22:28


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 22:03.