# hConst or eConst

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 February 4, 2022, 19:23 hConst or eConst #1 New Member   Jeferson Souza Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brazil Posts: 19 Rep Power: 14 I'm trying to understand which is the difference between setting up the thermoModel to hConst or eConst. Reading the documentation and also this post (When choose sensibleInternalEnergy or sensibleEnthalpy in thermophysicalProperties), I have understood that this setup is used to define which form of the energy equation should be used: hConst for enthalpy and eConst for internal energy. The problem is that I'm getting different solution, with the same problem, for each of these models. I'm using chtMultRegionFoam in openFoam 8. Both solid and fluid regions are solved. Natural convection (Boussinesq) is used in fluid zones. I would be very thankful if someone could explain (or indicate a link to read) which is the difference between these two models.

 February 5, 2022, 04:59 #2 Senior Member   Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: UK Posts: 668 Rep Power: 14 Jeferson - that's curious. Is it a significant difference, or just a minor convergence difference? It's worth checking that you have made the necessary changes to your input data and boundary conditions. For example, when you change from hConst to eConst, you need to change the specific heat that you define in thermophysicalProperties from Cp (constant pressure) to Cv = Cp/gamma (constant volume), etc.

 February 5, 2022, 10:08 #3 New Member   Jeferson Souza Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brazil Posts: 19 Rep Power: 14 Hy Tobermory, thanks for you answer. Results are quite different. About 10 K (from 350K to 360K). I have notice that when I change from hConst (using Cp) to eConst (using Cv = Cp), results are identical. In other words, when gamma is equal to 1, both solutions converge to the same result. What would be the gamma? The ratio between Cp and Cv? It should be equal to 1 for an incomprehensible fluid, however I'm using air. I have used Cp = 1007 J/kg K with the hConst solution and Cv = 712 J/kg K with the eCont solution. With these values, i got the 10 K difference.

 February 6, 2022, 05:12 #4 Senior Member   Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 353 Rep Power: 20 The implementation in the code: he is h or e and the ? : part is c++ for if he=e use the first equation otherwise the second. Code:  fvScalarMatrix EEqn ( fvm::div(phi, he) + ( he.name() == "e" ? fvc::div(phi, volScalarField("Ekp", 0.5*magSqr(U) + p/rho)) : fvc::div(phi, volScalarField("K", 0.5*magSqr(U))) ) - fvm::laplacian(turb.alphaEff(), he) == rho*(U&g) + rad.Sh(thermo) + fvOptions(rho, he) ); which results in these equations: Internal Energy: $\rho\textbf{u}\cdot\nabla&space;e+\rho&space;\textbf{u}\cdot&space;\nabla\left(\frac{1}{2}\textbf{u}\cdot&space;\textbf{u}&space;+&space;\frac{p}{\rho}&space;\right&space;)-\nabla\cdot\left(\alpha_{eff}\nabla&space;e&space;\right&space;)&space;=&space;\rho&space;\textbf{u}&space;\cdot&space;\textbf{g}&space;+\text{source&space;Terms}$ Enthalpy: $\rho\textbf{u}\cdot\nabla&space;h+\rho&space;\textbf{u}\cdot&space;\nabla\left(\frac{1}{2}\textbf{u}\cdot&space;\textbf{u}&space;\right&space;)-\nabla\cdot\left(\alpha_{eff}\nabla&space;h&space;\right&space;)&space;=&space;\rho&space;\textbf{u}&space;\cdot&space;\textbf{g}&space;+\text{source&space;Terms}$ with alphaEff for h and for e The underlying full equations are hence: Full Energy Equation: Full Energy equation formulated with Enthalpy: As you can see there is but one difference between these (keep in mind these equations are identical, just a different formulation). However the additional pressure work term in there is a difference from a numerical solution procedure. It is either an explicit source term when solving for e, or an implicit part of the enthalpy h. In most cases however you can split the equations above into a thermal part and the kinetic energy part. And here the thermal energy usually dominates in heat transfer, hence kinetic energy is negligible. Energy equation with removed kinetic energy: Enthalpy with removed kinetic energy: As quickly copied by other posts of mine. Which is preferable depends on last term in there. This is a source term, it does not include the variable we are solving for (h or e). And if this term acts as a source or sink is what determines it's numerical stability. The divergence of the velocity field is for example for incompressible flows 0. Hence the last term vanishes for the e solution. Which is why for incompressible stationary flows the e solution might be preferable. And for your problem: For incompressible fluids cp=cv Hence this might simply be how alpha is looked up due to you using rhoConst sylvester and lbossle like this.

 February 9, 2022, 18:49 #5 New Member   Jeferson Souza Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brazil Posts: 19 Rep Power: 14 What would be lambda? kappa/rho?

 February 10, 2022, 04:00 #6 Senior Member   Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: UK Posts: 668 Rep Power: 14 Jeferson - yes - check out post #4 in the following thread, where you can see the derivation of the term: question about fvm::laplacian(turbulence->alphaEff(), he) in rhoSimpleFoam

 February 10, 2022, 06:26 #7 Senior Member   Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 353 Rep Power: 20 no it's just kappa. I'm used to writing thermal conductivity as lambda.

 March 2, 2022, 18:39 #8 New Member   Jeferson Souza Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brazil Posts: 19 Rep Power: 14 I still "fighting" with this problem. In the case that I'm using thermoType { ... thermo eConst; equationOfState Boussinesq; ... } I have to inform Cv instead of Cp. I have two doubts: 1) how is Cp calculated? 2) how is Pr (Prandtl) calculated? I took a look at the suggested threads, but I'm still confused.

 March 3, 2022, 13:01 #9 Senior Member   Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: UK Posts: 668 Rep Power: 14 Ok - I think that I have found the answer. When using eConst thermo, you define the thermo using Cv, as you have stated. Line 137 of eConstThermoI.H shows an example of where Cp is used in the coding: Code:  template inline Foam::scalar Foam::eConstThermo::S ( const scalar p, const scalar T ) const { return Cp(p, T)*log(T/Tstd) + EquationOfState::Sv(p, T); } and this call to Cp is handled by EtoHthermo.H (https://cpp.openfoam.org/v8/EtoHther....html#l00002): Code:  inline scalar Cp ( const scalar p, const scalar T ) const { return Cv(p, T) + EquationOfState::CpMCv(p, T); } Okay - so what is CpMCv? You are running Boussinesq EoS, so line 169 of BoussinesqI.H has (https://cpp.openfoam.org/v8/Boussine...ce.html#l00171) has: Code:  template inline Foam::scalar Foam::Boussinesq::CpMCv ( scalar p, scalar T ) const { return 0; } !!! So essentially, if you are running the Boussinesq EoS, then Cp = Cv in the solver, which is clearly not too helpful and explains your results!

 March 7, 2022, 09:46 #10 New Member   Jeferson Souza Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brazil Posts: 19 Rep Power: 14 Thanks a lot Now things make sense. This is kind of tricky and difficult to "guess". There was not doubt in openFoam 7, since the combination of eConst with Boussinesq was not possible, but when I tried to use openFoam 8 things got confusing.

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